Much of the reason why people voted for devolution was because the idea of it was related to bread and butter issues. An excellent point made in Gerry Hassan's latest blog entry.
.... Independence is not that high an issue with voters. SNP supporters will say neither was devolution pre-Parliament. The difference is that devolution under Thatcher and Major became increasingly interconnected with ‘bread and butter’ economic and social issues; independence has so far failed to do this. The coming public spending savaging – estimated at 5.9% cuts of £1.7 billion in 2011-12 – will be potentially aided by the ‘Calman cuts’ – which would produce Scots public spending cuts comparable to a Polish post-Communist ‘shock therapy’ – may change this.
The timing to connect the idea of independence with 'bread and butter' issues could not be better for the SNP. While the very idea of the mandate for Britain to govern Scotland is being questioned the very legitimacy and viability of Westminster has collapsed:
On the other hand, the unionist parties and institutional establishment of Scotland have not come to terms with the depths of the multi-faceted crisis of Britain: of its politics, democracy, state and economy. This goes to the heart of what Britain is and what the union is for.
I know that the SNP have attracted many who do not believe in independence. However the party was not established to cater for that constituency nor for its own success but as a vehicle to realise an independent Scotland. The time to convert people to that idea has arrived. Loyalty to Westminster is collapsing across Britain and the UK's finances are beyond repair. The idea of independence will inevitably be related to bread and butter issues. It is the job of Salmond's team to ram that message home. The grounds are shifting and the SNP have awoken to it. The party has established itself as competent - it is becoming the only show in town. That is an advantage which can not and must not be wasted.
Perhaps a look back at how devolution grew into something more than a consitutional issue might help. We need as much imagination and debate as possible. For the cause of independence, this could be the nationalists' big chance.
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22 comments:
I voted SNP because I wanted independence.
Instead we got a £2million pound 'conversation'.
We got the total desecration of Scottish scenery with the 137mile pylon system across Scotland for a fake global warming scam.
We got Alex Salmond worshiping the totally corrupt EU.
We got Alex trousering £400 a month on food ( even when the tuck shop was shut)
We got neil trousering £100K on the sale of his taxpayer funded second home.
We got Alex sending Fred the Shred a goodluck with the ABnAmro purchase 2 months after Northern Wreck collapsed.
We got Alex writing letters in support of corrupt Pakistanis.
I suspect that most ex SNP supporters are like myself and hope that they will just go away and die somwhere horrible.
@RMcHeddon,
I do think you have some points here but just maybe you're being vulnerable to unionist smear stories, no?
Peter Jones (a unionist commentator) has observed that the 'national conversation' has been one part of a strategy that is making Scots think harder about independence. Let's face it, 2 mill wouldn't cover a bonus in The City of London..
Fake global warming scam is a matter of opinion. And even if it is fake, it does not mean we don't need alternative energy as oil runs out anyway. And fossil fuel energy will cause more environmental damage - so damned if you do and if you don't.
Don't see where Salmond worships anything and it is his job to improve Scottish relations wherever he goes and he can do nothing about our membership of the EU.
Expenses are a matter for the parliament not politicians unless there's been fraud and there hasn't been so there no point here. 400 a month on food? An MP in London will blow that on lunch fella.
Salmond is perhaps too close to bankers but giving backing to Scottish business is part of his remit. Support of corrupt Pakistanis is such an insignificant issue and full of smears and innuendo, don't you think?
I have my criticisms of the party but they don't resemble your list. The SNP have been competent and popular especially compared to their predecessors. For me sometimes a little petty and not engaged enough in transforming Scottish politics or too nice for my liking.
I would advise reading non mainstream media as all you're going to get there is variants of Alex Salmond ate my hamster stories..
Alex..
Wasn't independence at the 'forefront' of the SNP's manifesto last time around ? Why would anyone believe anything they ever say ?
I don't know anyone who heard anything about the 'conversation' about independence so it was a waste of £2m.
Ironic you telling me not to believe everything I read in the MSM while I'm not on the MSM but on a blog.
The global warming scam is being used to tax us and to allow more control over us. A multi trillion dollar scam. I agree we should try alternative energy sources but the carbon trading scam and windmill scam isn't the way to go.
Global warming is now 'climate change' because the sheeple noticed that it wasn't actually warming. Not for ten years. Plus we've had ice ages and med style warming beofre we were around in the UK.
With 'climate change' the scammers can claim that hot, cold, wet , dry etc is caused by us and spend billions to no effect.
http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm
That's a link to a list of things blamed on global warming by the scammers. There are over 800 on the list now.
I noticed you ommited Rt Hon J Murphy who claimed food a petty cash for 12 months (13 one year) every year which has never been highlighted on the MSM only Salmond's 2 months!
There are a lot of questions over carbon credits which is a money making scam.
SNP are in minority and all the other parties promised to vote it down without even reading what was being proposed, rendering it redundent.
@RMcGeddon,
Like I said, I think you have some valid points and I'm not convinced about global warming/climate change either but I also see that there are big money interests involved in denying its existance as well. The fact that Salmond is involved in alternative energy is not really about 'climate change' but about alternative energy. So, not really sure here why Salmond is the target as alternative energy sources are necessary. As for windmills, I have an open mind on the subject. I've spent time with Iberdrola engineers (Scottish Power) and they tell me windmills are getting better and better all the time in terms of energy efficiency. They ain't pretty but then, neither are coal plants or nuclear stations... I agree carbon trading is a scam but don't think the SNP are in any direct way involved in it.
I guess my point is that although I agree with a lot of what you say I don't see any SNP culpability at all.
I agree they were voted in to advance the cause of independence but they did not form a majority government and so what could they do? Well, maybe a lot but numerically, the referendum was not possible.
The party is not perfect and believe me, I have issues with it but right now I think that they are going to go flat out on the independence issue and we need all hands on deck..
@CH,
I agree with you. I think abandoning the referendum right now was sensible. What a shame we couldn't get it through though!
There is only one party with the aspiration and a hope in hell of winning elections and which favours independence. I personally do not believe in the stupid failed idea of socialism, however I believe that the only people who have the best interest of Scotland are heart are my fellow Scots. Utopian I know.
So whatever I think of Mr Salmond or Wee Nicola or Kenny Mac there is only one box for my cross. At every election I vote SNP. And I urge you to do the same.
Of course after the country has won its independence I will vote for the most right wing democratic party. But then I know what a stupid idea socialism is. And what a good idea independence is.
So if you love your country you have no excuse.Vote SNP.
The SNP are culpable Alex because they are planning to destroy our unique scenery because they believe in the global warming scam.
Whenever people mention the SNP filling their boots with expenses the SNP supporters always say ' well the other side are filling their boots so why shouldn't the SNP'. Or similar comments.
When Bendy Wendy said 'bring it on' wrt to the Independence referendum the SNP should have called her bluff and said ok. The fact that they didn't shows that they are probably part of the establishment and not to be trusted.
Please don't listen to engineers from the Spanish company trading as 'Scottish Power'. Their role is to support their company and maintain profits. You could ask them how many windmills would be built without a subsidy ( hint : answer = 0 ).
I love my country and have been let down by the SNP. They had their first chance in 300 years to change things for the better and did nothing.
@RMcGeddon,
Unique scenery is ruined already in different parts of Scotland by nuclear power plants, coal plants etc. I'm repeating myself here. There's always a trade off. As soon as the lights go out people don't give two hoots about a couple of hills with windmills on them - that's the reality. The SNP need to ensure power supply and that's a reality that needs to sink in. It's nothing to do with global warming and everything to do with 'peak oil'. Perhaps the 'global warming' issue is used by some politicians to influence people but it's future energy supply that is really driving this.
Before you slag off the SNP, you really have to tell people where you think that supply will come from and will it be neutral to the environment. If not then the same criticism you're levelling at the SNP can be levelled at you!
About expenses. No, the issue about Labour expenses was always about fraud. With the SNP you are pointing to what you consider to be 'excess'. There is a difference which is huge. 400 pounds a month for food is nothing especially for someone of Salmond's position. It really is to me a non-story. As for 100K for housing perhaps that is excessive in which case it's the fault of parliamentary rules. And for many with that kind of job it's not really a lot of money. Now, if you are telling me that it was fraud then that is another matter and is important. Otherwise the non-story belongs to the smearing tittle-tattle pages of the unionist red-top press..
Come on, the banks have robbed trillions of pounds in the last couple of years in real fraud and you're going on about Salmond spending 12.50 a day on food?
I agree Alex and re power generation people need to think that fossil energy is not going to last forever. We need to harness all 'free' energy and pay to convert it into something that we can store and use.
http://www.shanland.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3184:uranium-reserves-to-be-over-by-2050&catid=102:mailbox&Itemid=279
Yes we seem to be going over old ground Alex so I'll just make a couple of points and give it a rest..phew...
There's no shortage of energy resources in Scotland. We have hydro and enough coal for hundreds of years ( 200sq miles under the Forth etc ). We should have been replacing our nuclear plants but that's water under the bridge. It's too late to start now.
The 600 pylons ( at twice the height of the present ones) and hundreds of square miles of windfarms ( 20 sq miles at Eaglesham alone )are surely more of a blot than our small number of power stations. Windfarms need to be in prominent features such as hilltops for maximum exposure to the elements. The point is moot anyway as we will need more power stations as we develop wind power as they will need to cover all our needs when the wind drops and cope with the surges and brown outs.
The secrecy over the Scottish governments Climate Bill doesn't bode well for the future. The FOI request revealed an £8Bn price tag. While we're building cycle paths pensioners will be freezing to death. Afraid to switch on their heating due to ever increasing costs.
There's no global warming. Even if there was the sacrifices we are making wouldn't make a bit of difference on a global scale.
I accept that my views won't make any difference with all political parties, the EU, schools, unions and the MSM all trumpeting the global warming myth. Too much money and jobs is now reliant on their madness so it can't be turned around.
Countries like France will survive as they become almost totally reliant on nuclear power. The French company EDF will sell us their nuclear energy and help us to build a grid for our green energy at the same time. They will cash in on our madness and put up our bills and fill their boots.
@RMcGeddon,
You say we don't need more energy and at the end you tell us that the French will end up selling us it. How does this add up?
Sorry but coal is poisonous. I have asthma and I really don't like breathing polluted air so for me coal is a health hazard and should be replaced with renewables as soon as possible. Now windmills may not be pretty (I kind a like the look of them) like hills are but I prefer clean air to breath than the view of an empty glen.
We have no shortage of energy right now because of the oil but that is going to become depleted and will be gone by the time the renewables are available so you are correct - we have no need now but we are talking about forecasts.
We will not need more power stations to back up windmills. For a start it is almost always windy in Scotland. Secondly, when the grid is upgraded windmill downtime will not be an issue. Also, windmill energy can be used to pump water upwards and then dropped when the wind is low so as to bring online hydro power. On top of that offshore windmills help because there is always wind at sea. The technology in these areas are always improving. As the techonology improves so Scottish companies involved in the business will win contracts selling the same technology around the world.
It seems to me that the energy debate is complicated and it becomes whatever anyone wants it to be.
None of the 8 Billion is actually being wasted. It is simply being dressed up as green. For example, if you fix a leak in your pipe you can say it helping 'climate change'.
That's all the Scottish government is doing.
We here snearing nonsense about footpaths but they ain't a large part of the expense and they are entirely desirable for people's health and well-being.
I've heard virtually nothing of all this climate change criticism that stands up to scrutiny.
The real targets should be carbon trading and that's nothing to do with the SNP.
Again, pick your targets more carefully so as not to shoot your friends..
Heck Alex I thought we'd agreed to put this to bed ?
Oh well I'll have a go I suppose..
" You say we don't need more energy and at the end you tell us that the French will end up selling us it. How does this add up?"
I meant we don't need more energy resources. We have plenty of coal etc. The French will sell us energy because we're relying on renewables which won't be able to keep the lights on. French nuclear energy will help us out ( 25% of SE England power now using French nuclear power generated electricity)
" Sorry but coal is poisonous. I have asthma and I really don't like breathing polluted air so for me "
I'm sorry about that. It seems more common these days. The SNP have the carbon capture tchnology for coal powered power staions so you will be ok.
I suffer from insomnia due to the noise and 'flicker' from the local windfarm. Horses for courses as they say.
" We have no shortage of energy right now because of the oil but that is going to become depleted"
We don't generally use oil for our power stations. I managed to locate two in the UK but both are due to close in 2015
to be continued...
" We will not need more power stations to back up windmills"
I'm sorry but you're wrong there. The unpredictable nature of wind power means power staions have to be ready to take up the slack. This actually requires more power stations because of the 'surge' required. No wind means you need exactly the same number of power stations as previously and a little extra for the surge.
Germany has 20,000 windmills and hasn't been able to close any power stations. 90% of the existing power stations must be permanently online according to EON in 2005.
" For a start it is almost always windy in Scotland. "
Not true. We often have a high pressure sitting over Scotland in Winter. Germany had a 2 month high pressure a few years back that gave a flat calm over N Germany. We'd still need 90% power staions whirring away even if it was blowing a gale. Talking of gales. A recent gale forced the wind turbines to be swithched off as they were making the grid unstable.
" Secondly, when the grid is upgraded windmill downtime will not be an issue"
Not true. In Denmark where windmills have doubled electricity prices and turned the country into a place not to visit they found some turbines were needing repalced at 18 months rather than 20 years. This despite the most advanced grid in Europe. There were 60 that failed simultaneously.
to be continued...
" Also, windmill energy can be used to pump water upwards and then dropped when the wind is low so as to bring online hydro power."
Yes they do this in Denmark. They give Norway cheap electricity to pump the water in Norwegian hydro schemes. The Norwegians then sell this electricity back to Denmark at the normal tariff. Denmark taxpayers subsidising Norway. Cool.
" there is always wind at sea"
Not worth commenting on apart to say you obviously don't sail much.
" As the techonology improves so Scottish companies involved in the business will win contracts selling the same technology around the world."
We long ago missed the boat and most countries know it's a scam. The SNP said some Norwegian company was investing in wave power in Scotland but a little bit of digging pointed to another scam. A £4m grant from UK taxpayers was discovered by reporters
" It seems to me that the energy debate is complicated and it becomes whatever anyone wants it to be."
Yes i've seen many examples of that ;)
" None of the 8 Billion is actually being wasted."
Sweeping statement and obviously wrong. Do you really want me to give you lots of examples. It might get tedious.
" We here snearing nonsense about footpaths but they ain't a large part of the expense and they are entirely desirable for people's health and well-being."
Some wouldn't agree. If it's taxpayers money being spent I bet thousands of housebound pensioners would prefer cheaper electricity rather than some path that no one will use. Both are good but only one will keep someone warm and alive.
to be continued...
" I've heard virtually nothing of all this climate change criticism that stands up to scrutiny."
You should really read more Alex. I can't believe you actually wrote that.
" The real targets should be carbon trading and that's nothing to do with the SNP."
Oh but it is to do with the SNP. They fully endorse it . They believe in the EU (prime mover in carbon trading). Alex rushed to the Copenhagen summit and supports the climate summits where carbon trading is worked out and implemented.
" Again, pick your targets more carefully so as not to shoot your friends.."
It's nothing personal against the SNP. All parties, MSM, EU, schools etc etc support the scam. I just comment on it.
The Denmark issue you mention then is about subsidy and nothing to do with the viability of the energy system. If that Danes are that daft then that's their issue but I'll bet there's more to it than you or most people know. What other deals have they done in relation to this? That's the way governments work..
There IS always wind in the sea depending on where you put your turbines..
Renewables is not a scam. I'll accept that carbon credits is though. The Chinese and others will spend a lot on renewables and Scottish companies will benefit from it.
The 4 million subsidy that was 'discovered' still exists though. Look, the press will tell you that anything that you weren't told demonstrates that there was a cover up - it doesn't. Smear and innuendo only.
And again. 4 mill? Who f&%$&ing cares? The banks have robbed Britain of trillions and you're going after a subsidy set-up to develop renewable energy technology. Really, it's peanuts in the overall energy sector.
When I say that none of the 8 Billion is going to be wasted what I mean is that none of the criticism has shown that it will be wasted. All we have is smear and innuendo - nothing substantial.
Again, FOOTPATHS? Every civilised country has footpaths. Ofcourse we should be able to heat the homes of old people AND have them. It shouldn't be either or it should be both.
Jeezus, every country in the world has footpaths but in Scotland apparently it's some sort of global conspiracy - what the...?
The summits bleat on about carbon schemes and Salmond has no say over it and indeed has to go along with what the UK signs up to. If he doesn't go along with it he would be crucified.
When the summit is over, he can say he has done his bit by dressing up 'transport' costs as 'climate change'.
That's all it is - political cover.
Like I said, none of this stacks up. It's just green marketing. The SNP will not be involved in setting up or implementing carbon trading although as it comes online they will have to do their devolved duty.
At some point there really does have to be a case that is going to stick regarding the SNP here.
I have my criticism of the party but most of this 'climate change' criticism of the SNP seems like political posturing and trouble-making by the unionist media.
I'm sure if anything really substantial stuck the unionist media would be all over it with investigation that actually holds water but they haven't..
check this out: gianthttp://newsnetscotland.com/general/579-alex-salmond-announces-massive-scottish-investment-by-spanish-giant#comments
"The company is also a global benchmark in the market for the development, construction and sale of wind farms, with more than 3,500 MW installed and a wind farm portfolio totalling 22,000 MW at varying stages of development in Europe, America and Asia.
With 30 manufacturing facilities in Europe, the USA, China and India, and 4,400 MW of annual manufacturing capacity, Gamesa has an international workforce of more than 6,300 people."
This is about Gamesa. They have 30 manufacturing plants in Europe, USA, CHina and India. This does not indicate that anyone sees renewables as a scam.
I think what we have to do is seperate the issues of 'carbon trading' and 'renewables' here. Renewables stand on their own and don't need the cover of 'climate change' to sell them.
" Renewables stand on their own and don't need the cover of 'climate change' to sell them"
Not true. They require billions in subsidies to the companies involved as they're not economical. This is why the global warming scam has to be constantly enforced through the media and useful blogs like yours.
This investment is devastating news for Scotland as it will tie us into the renewables scam for a generation. Only one generation as it's not affordable without bankrupting the country so will be thrown out after that.
I see Iberdrola are linking up with Scottish Power to go the 'smart grid' way. Two way communications with every electricity meter in Scotland. What could possibly go wrong.
correction..
Should have said they're linking up with Scottish & Southern Energy of France. Forgot Iberdrola own Scottish Power.
Well, the technology of renewables is proven so I think the scam you speak about is based on flawed thinking. Certainly, it would not be difficult for the oil companies to infact people's thinking on the subject.. I do agree that it needs developing to make it more efficient but the lead time for such technologies is decades and we're now getting there with windpower. I've spoken to Iberdrola engineers (as friends and they had no need or desire to prove commercial the case) off-the-record and they concur. In the same capacity I've spoken to chief energy engineers (in liquid hydrogen sector) and they also concur.
Certainly man-made 'climate change' is far more questionable although inconclusive either way and I believe carbon credits are a scam.
It's not surprising to me that renewables are dressed up as 'climate change' because that would make them a more attractive technology for the 'green masses' but renewables are definately valid.
Putting them in the category of 'scam' is absurd to me and dilutes the case against carbon credits. Perhaps why the oil companies are trying to confuse the issues? There's another scam - joking ;)
The global warming issue is hyped up to back up carbon credits, I can see that.
You can if you want, cause you don't like renewables, argue that 'global warming' is hyped to support renewables but then 'every theory has the right to exist' as the Soviets liked to say.
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